Comments on: Do we want a code for blogs? http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/ Enabling a Reliable, Consistent and Trusted Experience Sun, 13 Mar 2011 18:37:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Hummingbird Mentality :: No Code http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-24480 Hummingbird Mentality :: No Code Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:55:19 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-24480 [...] Paul Walch says ‘I’m not trying to police the Internet‘, and I believe him. But when codes like the one currently proposed emerge, they fill a vacuum in the control of internet speech, and are eagerly supported by individuals and governments who seek such control. [...] [...] Paul Walch says ‘I’m not trying to police the Internet‘, and I believe him. But when codes like the one currently proposed emerge, they fill a vacuum in the control of internet speech, and are eagerly supported by individuals and governments who seek such control. [...]

]]> By: A blogger code of conduct? at Wired Gecko http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-17125 A blogger code of conduct? at Wired Gecko Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:16:58 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-17125 [...] These are really principles that have been repeated time and time again on blogs. There is nothing new here, just a matter of decency and respect. If there is going to be some sort of code to set guidelines for standards to aspire to then perhaps the whole initiative should be facilitated by a body with a more accommodating approach. Segala has also been working to develop a code of conduct for some time now and has established the framework for an alternative code on the Content Labels site. [...] [...] These are really principles that have been repeated time and time again on blogs. There is nothing new here, just a matter of decency and respect. If there is going to be some sort of code to set guidelines for standards to aspire to then perhaps the whole initiative should be facilitated by a body with a more accommodating approach. Segala has also been working to develop a code of conduct for some time now and has established the framework for an alternative code on the Content Labels site. [...]

]]> By: John McCormac http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-16323 John McCormac Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:33:19 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-16323 No problem Paul, It is just that I view the Semantic Web as an attempt to apply a Human information architecture to the chaos of the web. That viewpoint comes from actually working with searchengines, writing search engine spiders and mapping domain name usage for the last seven years or so. The web does not really have an information architecture and the present generation of search engines really spider everything and attempt to extract some meaning from the data. The Semantic Web would make things easier but I think that reality would hit it hard. It would be gamed as easily as Metadata and Google's PR. The web is now a highly commercial arena - a far cry from the walled garden that it was in the early days. And unless there is an overwhelming commercial argument for the application of Semantic Web to the chaos of the web, then it simply will not happen. Until that time, people will rely on search engines to navigate the web. The restriction of freedom of expression comes directly from the consequences of the adoption of a code of conduct. Once you sign up to a code of conduct, you automatically start to restrict or censor your own posts. The majority of blogs, (that are not actually splogs), are personal blogs and they would be the ones signing up for such a code, or would at least be the target of such a code. Company and business blogs have a certain image to maintain and would be far less likely to need a code of conduct that covers such things as profanity. No problem Paul,
It is just that I view the Semantic Web as an attempt to apply a Human information architecture to the chaos of the web. That viewpoint comes from actually working with searchengines, writing search engine spiders and mapping domain name usage for the last seven years or so. The web does not really have an information architecture and the present generation of search engines really spider everything and attempt to extract some meaning from the data. The Semantic Web would make things easier but I think that reality would hit it hard. It would be gamed as easily as Metadata and Google’s PR. The web is now a highly commercial arena – a far cry from the walled garden that it was in the early days. And unless there is an overwhelming commercial argument for the application of Semantic Web to the chaos of the web, then it simply will not happen. Until that time, people will rely on search engines to navigate the web.

The restriction of freedom of expression comes directly from the consequences of the adoption of a code of conduct. Once you sign up to a code of conduct, you automatically start to restrict or censor your own posts. The majority of blogs, (that are not actually splogs), are personal blogs and they would be the ones signing up for such a code, or would at least be the target of such a code. Company and business blogs have a certain image to maintain and would be far less likely to need a code of conduct that covers such things as profanity.

]]> By: Paul Walsh http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-16268 Paul Walsh Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:28:10 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-16268 John - ... I'm not saying you're not familiar with what the Semantic Web is. Just making the point that most people are misinformed. John – … I’m not saying you’re not familiar with what the Semantic Web is. Just making the point that most people are misinformed.

]]> By: Paul Walsh http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-16180 Paul Walsh Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:47:07 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-16180 John - the full potential of the Web won't be reached until we have a Semantic Web. The Semantic Web doesn't have to happen over night, nor do I think anyone advocating it, actually believes it will happen over night. I believe this is the opposite to what you're saying. People like Tim Berners-Lee (inventor of the Web) appreciate the magnitude of the Web more than anyone. He always wanted a Semantic Web when he invented it in 1989; interoperable sites using the data that lies beneath the Web. I think the problem is lack of understand and a huge misconception surrounding 'what' the Semantic Web actually is, even amongst the most technical savvy. This is the reason we now have the W3C Semantic Web Education and Outreach Special (SWEO) Interest Group. David Rooks and I are proud members. The purpose of the group is to do what it says on the tin; educate and reach out to industry. The W3C now has 4 real applications to help demonstrate what the Semantic Web is - http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/ So, we're trying to move away from the academic (only) approach in favour of demonstrating real user (and commercial/financial) benefit. ---- Where's your assumption coming from regarding a code for blogs restricting 'expression'? It's easy for people to use phrases such as 'freedom of expression' because nobody wants to hamper it. BTW, not all blogs are 'personal', some are company views. You see, everyone is assuming that every blogger is an individual working from their bedroom talking about music. Whilst the vast majority of the blogshere is made up of personal ramblings, there are a few who wish to be differentiated from the rest in some way. Why restrict them from doing so? It's not as if a code or set of best practices would restrict the use of swear words, or vulgarity - this type of stuff is already covered by ICRA labels. John – the full potential of the Web won’t be reached until we have a Semantic Web. The Semantic Web doesn’t have to happen over night, nor do I think anyone advocating it, actually believes it will happen over night.

I believe this is the opposite to what you’re saying. People like Tim Berners-Lee (inventor of the Web) appreciate the magnitude of the Web more than anyone. He always wanted a Semantic Web when he invented it in 1989; interoperable sites using the data that lies beneath the Web.

I think the problem is lack of understand and a huge misconception surrounding ‘what’ the Semantic Web actually is, even amongst the most technical savvy. This is the reason we now have the W3C Semantic Web Education and Outreach Special (SWEO) Interest Group. David Rooks and I are proud members. The purpose of the group is to do what it says on the tin; educate and reach out to industry.

The W3C now has 4 real applications to help demonstrate what the Semantic Web is – http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/ So, we’re trying to move away from the academic (only) approach in favour of demonstrating real user (and commercial/financial) benefit.

—-

Where’s your assumption coming from regarding a code for blogs restricting ‘expression’? It’s easy for people to use phrases such as ‘freedom of expression’ because nobody wants to hamper it.

BTW, not all blogs are ‘personal’, some are company views. You see, everyone is assuming that every blogger is an individual working from their bedroom talking about music. Whilst the vast majority of the blogshere is made up of personal ramblings, there are a few who wish to be differentiated from the rest in some way. Why restrict them from doing so?

It’s not as if a code or set of best practices would restrict the use of swear words, or vulgarity – this type of stuff is already covered by ICRA labels.

]]> By: links for 2007-04-10 at Wired Gecko http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-16131 links for 2007-04-10 at Wired Gecko Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:32:39 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-16131 [...] Do we want a code for blogs? - Segala Segala has been discussing a code of conduct for bloggers for a while now. I wonder where this will go. (tags: codeofconduct bloggers segala code conduct) [...] [...] Do we want a code for blogs? – Segala Segala has been discussing a code of conduct for bloggers for a while now. I wonder where this will go. (tags: codeofconduct bloggers segala code conduct) [...]

]]> By: John McCormac http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-16043 John McCormac Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:15:15 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-16043 The problem with the Semantic Web is that it is a great idea in theory but nobody really wants to put it into widespread use. It is a simplistic attempt to apply a Human model to information that only works on small scales. In many respects it is like the web directory ideas of the early 1990s. The web has moved on drastically since then. However the Semantic Web still has its true believers who frequently don't understand the magnitude of the web. This is why Google wins while Doras.ie (Eircom's failed web directory project) no longer exists. This code for bloggers suffers from similar problems. A blog is quite an unusual publication in that the blogger is the author and editor. It is an avenue of personal expression. Therefore applying a code to it is a restriction on personal expression. The big problem with content labels and blogger codes is that they remove the freedom of thought. They make the decision for the reader and interjects the morals and values of their creators between the reader and the author. The problem with the Semantic Web is that it is a great idea in theory but nobody really wants to put it into widespread use. It is a simplistic attempt to apply a Human model to information that only works on small scales. In many respects it is like the web directory ideas of the early 1990s. The web has moved on drastically since then. However the Semantic Web still has its true believers who frequently don’t understand the magnitude of the web. This is why Google wins while Doras.ie (Eircom’s failed web directory project) no longer exists.

This code for bloggers suffers from similar problems. A blog is quite an unusual publication in that the blogger is the author and editor. It is an avenue of personal expression. Therefore applying a code to it is a restriction on personal expression.

The big problem with content labels and blogger codes is that they remove the freedom of thought. They make the decision for the reader and interjects the morals and values of their creators between the reader and the author.

]]> By: Kamrul http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-15910 Kamrul Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:20:26 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-15910 Bernie, You show a creative common badge in your site, right? How do u think the browsers and commercial news harvester detect your site's content is "some rights reserved"? Naturally the RDF code you copied from Creative commons site and put in your template/source file. (some people mistakenly remove the RDF code though) I am sure you know Creative Commons is 100% free service, yet very effective. As far as concern of enforcement, "The Commons", group of volunteer who seek for violation or misuse. If found, existing law/codes used to handle that matter. But off course the violator loose the creative common license agreement. Same way me, you and everyone can develop a set of guidelines/codes of ethics. Those who accept, shows a RDF coded badge (for sure human & machine readable) and become a member of community. 80% blogger show creative Commons for protecting their content, so why Content Label can't be implemented to protect their moral-legal ethics/codes they follow? Bernie,
You show a creative common badge in your site, right? How do u think the browsers and commercial news harvester detect your site’s content is “some rights reserved”? Naturally the RDF code you copied from Creative commons site and put in your template/source file. (some people mistakenly remove the RDF code though)

I am sure you know Creative Commons is 100% free service, yet very effective. As far as concern of enforcement, “The Commons”, group of volunteer who seek for violation or misuse. If found, existing law/codes used to handle that matter. But off course the violator loose the creative common license agreement.

Same way me, you and everyone can develop a set of guidelines/codes of ethics. Those who accept, shows a RDF coded badge (for sure human & machine readable) and become a member of community.

80% blogger show creative Commons for protecting their content, so why Content Label can’t be implemented to protect their moral-legal ethics/codes they follow?

]]> By: Bernie Goldbach http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-15198 Bernie Goldbach Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:45:19 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-15198 Standards, codes of conduct and professional guidelines often collapse for lack of enforcement. This kind of shortcoming surfaces month after month in A-List PR podcasts from Shel Holtz, Terry Fallis, Neville Hobson, and Mitch Joel. I've watched content labeling for images fall over several times before and wonder how in the world you could make a viable mechanism for annotating blog content since the content of many blogs runs the gamut, rarely even categorised for easy harvesting by enterprise aggregators used by Irish politicians. Then there's the ropey issue of content distorted by comments placed on blog posts that may be well-off the map of acceptable discourse. The most successful content labeling structure in mainstream user-generated media is run by Apple iTunes. But they have people who randomly check tracks and who respond to complaints on the back of a ping structure that conforms to their content management system. If that is to happen as a result of this current discussion, you're talking about a commercial solution, paid subscription plans or some other funded mechanism. At first glance, this wouldn't fit the normal editorial style of many casual bloggers. Standards, codes of conduct and professional guidelines often collapse for lack of enforcement. This kind of shortcoming surfaces month after month in A-List PR podcasts from Shel Holtz, Terry Fallis, Neville Hobson, and Mitch Joel. I’ve watched content labeling for images fall over several times before and wonder how in the world you could make a viable mechanism for annotating blog content since the content of many blogs runs the gamut, rarely even categorised for easy harvesting by enterprise aggregators used by Irish politicians.

Then there’s the ropey issue of content distorted by comments placed on blog posts that may be well-off the map of acceptable discourse.

The most successful content labeling structure in mainstream user-generated media is run by Apple iTunes. But they have people who randomly check tracks and who respond to complaints on the back of a ping structure that conforms to their content management system. If that is to happen as a result of this current discussion, you’re talking about a commercial solution, paid subscription plans or some other funded mechanism. At first glance, this wouldn’t fit the normal editorial style of many casual bloggers.

]]> By: Damien Mulley » Blog Archive » Guardian in not having a clue shocker http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-14246 Damien Mulley » Blog Archive » Guardian in not having a clue shocker Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:06:50 +0000 http://segala.com/blog/do-we-want-a-code-for-blogs/#comment-14246 [...] For the record, I don’t care or give a fig about “content labels” and all that other insufferable snakeoil shite. I am against a blogger code of conduct which some predatory scum are trying to force on a group in order to cash in on mass hysteria. Had the Guardian actually read my post properly, besides copying and pasting from Paul Walsh’s blog post, which egotistically assumed (without checking) I had been talking about his idea, they would have known that. I would have expected something better from BBC Print Lite. I would have also expected a link to what they falsey said I had written. It is easier to make false claims and not back it up, isn’t it though? [...] [...] For the record, I don’t care or give a fig about “content labels” and all that other insufferable snakeoil shite. I am against a blogger code of conduct which some predatory scum are trying to force on a group in order to cash in on mass hysteria. Had the Guardian actually read my post properly, besides copying and pasting from Paul Walsh’s blog post, which egotistically assumed (without checking) I had been talking about his idea, they would have known that. I would have expected something better from BBC Print Lite. I would have also expected a link to what they falsey said I had written. It is easier to make false claims and not back it up, isn’t it though? [...]

]]>